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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.14 16:59:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: CCP Wrangler
As the recent news stated, we will disable the ability to train skills on a suspended account. Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans: Why ghost training was disabled.
Adding my vote to restore ghost-skilling.
My character is from early 2006. He was set up ridiculously badly (Amarr, high Charisma), but for the first year or so I enjoyed him a lot. Now he's faded a bit in fun, so I've been playing more intermittently.
As a father and with a busy job ghost-skilling kept me playing by letting me take short breaks to skill for new toys or edges, and come back to the game after feeling refreshed and reinterested.
-vk
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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.16 13:01:00 -
[2]
Reposting here to play along with damage control.
In every MMO you hit points you want to quit. Ghost-skilling gave you an incentive to come back afterwards.
So while the accounts that aren't running now at 50% might balance against those that now must run at 100%, I believe that the feature change will be felt in the long term in the form of fewer players returning after hitting a quit point.
I'm disappointed by this because I know my next quit point will be my last, and my current GTC expires in 40 days. You can't haz my stuff.
I urge CCP to reconsider turning off this feature.
-vk |
Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.16 15:47:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 16/10/2008 15:48:29
Originally by: Grismar
I can only agree with the decision to fix it in the first place, it's a stupid feature and only supports RMT character farming. But I think it's just plain stupid to have waited this long.
Right now, you leave people no other choice than believing that the only reason you left it in was to inflate the number of people that had active accounts from time to time, to improve the image of the corporation with investors and for purposes of promotion.
You raise an interesting point. Does it seem likely that CCP incorporated the feature to inflate user statistics? My view is that it's tin-foil hattery to believe that, but since they still have ghost-research and ghost-trading some inflation must still apply.
So far as RMT goes, CCP sanctions RMT by selling GTCs and facilitating their conversion to ISK. You might find that objectionable, but ghost-skilling has nothing to do with it.
You could make a solid case suggesting that ghost-skilling exerts a downward pressure on character trade prices, but you also need to show how that matters. Having expressed a distaste for RMT, you contradict yourself if you argue that character trade prices should be higher.
-vk
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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
The incentive to come back to the game after a year or even 6 months, is not the fact that you may have trained a measly skill of 1 month (we are talking about a lv5 of a skill you already have it to lv4).
It's the fact that you know that your character still exists and is the same old one you left alongside with the game, with all his assets. Something no other MMO gives you as far as I know.
The reason one comes back is because he likes the game deep down and just got nostalgic for the people he knows through this game. All the excuses about the incentive a skill can provide to someone, who really quit the game, is just plain old bullshit.
I believe this argument is faulty. When you quit, you quit given the state of the game at that time. Existing character state, existing friends, those are already counted when you make your decision.
So while I would agree with you if you want to say that friends keep you playing longer, and I would even agree that if your character were deleted that would guarantee you didn't return, it is faulty to argue that anything about the state of the game when you quit will motivate you to return.
So yes, exciting new features might bring you back, and changes to your character (ghost-skilling), are important. To argue otherwise is facile.
-vk
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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.18 08:16:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 18/10/2008 08:17:17
Originally by: Minsc
Yeah and that huge jump in expenses had nothing to do with them buying WhiteWolf...nope nothing at all I'm sure.
Try again.
So you're saying CCP took a big chunk of our Eve subs, that we hoped went into improving the game that we in fact play, and they spunked it on buying an emo-fantasy game?
-vk
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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.19 21:29:00 -
[6]
Originally by: ninjaholic
STFU you spoiled b**tards. CCP should've never allowed you all to ghost train in the first place, and you're screwing them out of money. At a time when money is pretty damn important and pays for the hardware upgrades so you li'l b**tards stop complaining about lag.
Any argument that ghost-skilling takes away money from important Eve features is fallacious. Look at CCP's accounts (posted a few pages back). They reveal a large exceptional expense, likely related to their deal with White Wolf. A deal that offers little to people who love Eve and want Eve to be better.
Note that my argument is not whether CCP should or should not invest in other games. I'm just pointing out a fault in your line of reasoning.
-vk
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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 16:32:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur
hey this treadnought is slowing down, please don't, we need to complain about this "bug".
Surely four or five thousand posts is enough to raise an issue?!
CSM is taking it to CCP on our behalf. What more can we do, and for that matter what more should we need to do?
-vk
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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 21:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur
Edited by: Sean Mcarthur on 20/10/2008 20:16:54
Originally by: Brother Welcome
Originally by: Sean Mcarthur
hey this treadnought is slowing down, please don't, we need to complain about this "bug".
Surely four or five thousand posts is enough to raise an issue?!
CSM is taking it to CCP on our behalf. What more can we do, and for that matter what more should we need to do?
-vk
please when you quote then use the whole text as the first part was just a pun to point out that, in the days after the "ghost training stop blog", CCP released more info of what they are doing, than thay have for the last 3 months. Just my way of saying: ccp is trying to coverup but lets use it to gain something:-)
Oh one more thing CSM had JUST expired when this news hit and the next is just begining to form up so how can they bring it up?
Sorry about that! No corruption of your meaning was intended. I didn't realise CSM has just expired. What's going on with that?
Right now I am wholly of the belief that a skill put on train is a skill fully paid for right at that moment, and it just makes me more annoyed at CCP than ever, for the reasons people have already stated.
My account runs another 40-days, then for my part the question is extremely simple. If CCP have restored ghost-training, I will extend my sub. If not I will not.
-vk
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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 09:42:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 21/10/2008 09:46:15
I endeavoured to explain how training works so that players who don't want to read through this threadnaught could get some insight into the feature change. I put that in General Discussion, because it seemed general, and I wanted to evoke discussion. The thread was locked and I was directed here. I've petitioned it.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=902748
I'm astonished by CCP's handling of this whole thing. As I now understand the functionality, consistent with having to pause training to plug-in implants and so on, the whole cost of training is fully paid up when you set it going. That means that it's like pulling into a petrol station and putting in $30 of petrol. It's all paid up front, but you see the benefit of it eked out over time as you drive along.
The petrol station guy can't come and siphon gas out of your tank just because you've decided not to come back to get more for a couple of months!
The whole 'snowflake' analogy was disingenuous, at best, and a bald-faced lie, at worst. I can only hope that it was made without knowing how the game really worked.
-vk
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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 23:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tivookz
It's a classic mistake to believe that players forget things.
We don't forget, we just get exhausted talking about it but when the time comes to decide wether to stay or try a new game, the decision will be easier to make when you think back on issues like this one where over 5000 posts have been made without a single comment from CCCP.
Tiv
This.
I have not forgotten. I may have grown tired of posting, but I have not grown even the slightest bit weary of quitting the day my current sub runs out 
-vk |
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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.11.02 18:31:00 -
[11]
So any official response yet? Or is the plan just to wait us out and trust the issue will be lost in collective amnesia?
Lamentably that's a tried-and-true method of corporate malfeasance.
-vk
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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.11.06 18:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Soma Khan
This whole thread is about expressing massive amounts of angst over loosing a computer game freebie. This angst is sometime disguised as indignation at being slighted or given such short notice, however this doesn't change the main gist. Can there be a lower form of begging? I am hard pressed to come up with an example.
I feel no angst; only disappointment. I'll go ahead and assume you understand how training works, and thus that you understand that what one is paying for with one's subscription is the capability to enter control inputs.
One doesn't pay to set up a toon, that's free with a trial account. One doesn't pay to keep toon data on the database, that happens even if you stop subbing... yes, even now. One doesn't pay to have change occur to database entries, that happens for research and such.
The feature that has been removed represents a corporate failure to offer fair value. I and others object to that, and to the corporate failure to deal with us fairly, hence we take the only recourse offered to disappointed customers, which is to take our money elsewhere.
-vk
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Brother Welcome
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.11.30 13:45:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 30/11/2008 14:19:21
After expressing my concerns frankly I've remained silent on this thread, but dropped in to check it from time to time. To their discredit CCP are following the now standard corporate measure of silence. Individuals have relatively short interest spans: so I am sure it will be effective.
My 60-day sub ends in 3 days time.
-vk
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